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Friday, May 14, 2021

INVENTORY OF BLOG ENTRIES

INVENTORY OF BLOG ENTRIES

115. DNA Results: May Secure Login | Sparklight9, 2021

Sunday, May 9, 2021

DNA Results

DNA Results

Well, I'm gonna sound really petty. I remember when I was a kid, people occasionally asked dad if he was an Indian. His reply was always the same, "Oh, I hve a little Indian blood, not much though."

Here's a photo of my parents; dad -- Alpha Omega Hawkins (1915-1992) and mama -- Elmyra Louise (Plaster) Hawkins (1915-2002). Mama is mostly German, English, and Scots-Irish. Some of Dad's ancestors were harder to find.

And that's all I have ever claimed, really. Then other people come up to me and say I am faking it . . . THEY are the ones making a big deal out of it. My dogs are all sleepy and I feel I have time to write down a few things. I wanted to find out more about our native blood, and so about 30 years ago I started trying to find out more information about them. My quest morphed from a research into the Cherokee into one looking into the history of the Catawba and other bands associated with them. That's all. All my research culminated in looking into our DNA. That's how we got here.

Well finally, I got a major DNA testing company to admit their results depend on the algorithm they use. I asked Family Tree DNA -- why did [another testing company's] autosomal DNA test reveal a tri-racial ancestry (which agrees with both family stories and photographic evidence), while your test said I was 100 % Caucasian?"

— Different companies use different algorithms, test different SNPs, and use different population clusters. This means that the results will vary.

In the past they had said I was about 98% Caucasian and the rest unknown, or something like similar.

They also forwarded me a link -- Ancestral DNA Percentages – How Much of Them is in You? | DNAeXplained – Genetic Genealogy (dna-explained.com)

At that kink was the followinig table and accompanying paragraph --

One of the most common questions I receive, especially in light of the interest in ethnicity testing, is how much of an ancestor’s DNA someone “should” share.

I was a math major in college so making this simple chart is easy. But my opinion carries no weight at all, as everything I say gets criticized. Maybe since the genealogical site created the link to this table, people will be more apt to believe it. The chart above shows how much of a particular generation of ancestors’ DNA you would inherit if each generation between you and that ancestor inherited exactly 50% of that ancestor’s DNA from their parent. This means, on the average, you will carry less than 1% of each of your 5 times great-grandparents DNA, shown in generation 7, in total. You’ll carry about 1.56% of each of your 4 times great-grandparents, your 6th generation ancestors, and so forth.

From this chart I can assume I inherit the following; From the "Gist/Guess ancestors -- me, dad, gramdma, , Josephine, Harriet, Rachel -- Rachel being g-g-g-grandma -- maybe 1.56%. It might have been her husband that was Native American.

From the Brown's -- me, dad, grandma. Josephine, David, John -- maybe 0.78% -- John wasn't full blood.

From my Wayland's -- me, dad, grandma, Jeffrey, Sarah, William, and Kezziah -- maybe 1.56% -- or maybe 0.78 -- It's impossible to know who was full blood, or mixed race, or how mixed, someone was that long ago. Our emperical data agrees pretty good with the algorithm showing our ntive ancestry of about 3%.

These three ancestors would give me, my generation, about (2)*(1.56)+0.78= 3.90% Native heritage; or in the case our Wayland's are just 0.78%,Native; then we'd be 3.12. That would be equivalent to 2*(1/64th)+(1/128)=(5/128th), or maybe just (4/128ths, => 1/32nd); which is exactly 0.0390625, or maybe just, which is 0,03125. If you toss this away and consider it just "statistical noise" . . . well, that's when/where we have a problem. So we don't have a lot of Native blood. but WE DO HAVE SOME. Our mixed-Catawba ancestors were denied federal recognition in Indian Territory (Oklahoma) because we were said to have already been assimilated into Caucasian culture -- we were known to have been of mixed heritage. About 1900 when we were rejected being rejected just affected a few of us. Today and into the future, more and more Native peoples will have smaller and smaller percentages of Native blood. This is the way of eventually diffusing us until we disappear, one day.

I have some observations concerning the DNA testing facilities. They try hard and want to have scientific unbiassed observations. However, they don’t always succeed in this endeavor. I’d advise using commonsense as well as known ancestry, known genealogical records. Based on family stories, I’d guess my ancestry was in order of most to least, English, German, Scots-Irish, Catawban and/or Cherokee, perhaps Scandinavian from Viking-European era from the U. K., West-African from the era of the Slave trade, and one of mama’s ancestors might have been Jewish from the surname “Jonas”. I recall mama saying her Jonas ancestors were called “Black Dutch” in early day America. I read a book discussing the origin of the word "Black Dutch". They suggested many possibilities, one being German Jew, or a dark complected German. One surname “King” on Mama’s side was Anglicized from “Koenig” – Koenig is the name of a large city on the southeastern corner of the Baltic coast. All these ancestors were in America before or came to America during the Revolution. We can trace only one surname as far as Europe, and that from a man born in Ireland, but it was said that his parents were Englishmen who moved to Ireland. This is what we know from genealogical and historical records.

I have NO ancestry from India, Iran, or southeastern or southwestern Asia, despite what various algorithm’s say about the origins of my DNA. As I said, there’s a chance one of my great grandparents might have been mixed-Jewish. But my grandma was part Native American, and so there should be a higher probability of Native DNA than Middle Eastern. That makes me think geneticists are giving higher priority to some DNA, yet are calling small snipits of Native American DNA as nothing but "statistical noise". That is, they are trying to be inclusive to some ancestors, and exclusive of others.

Based on these observations, I’d “guess” my ancestors were 30% German (all from Mama’s side), 50% English/Scots-Irish (from both parents), 10% Native American, 5% sub-Sahara African, 5% unknown. The last 20% is all from dad’s side. And this is just a wild guess based on what we both can prove and what our family stories, and migration patterns suggest. This much I could have guessed a few decades back.

Then DNA testiing became a reality. What would it say? Here are my results from 2005. If you "click" on it, it will expand,

and

Here are the results one by one person who performed a “painting” of my DNA results. She only tested for Native American ancestry.

On chromosome # 1 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 25-30M, 209M, and 243-244M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 5M, 29-30M, 94-97M, 209-211M, and 243-246M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 17-18M, 178-179M, 201M, and 209-214M [Sigfnificantly so at 213-214M]. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 39-41M, 94-96M, 159M, and 209M.

On chromosome # 2 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 0-1M, 26-28M, 59-60M, 73-74M, 106-108M, 119-121M, 151-156M, 168-169M, and 213-215M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 15M, 23-28M, 102M, 114M, and 192M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 26-28M, 86M, 102M, 144-150M [significantly so at 147M and 150M], 192-193M, and 215M.

On chromosome # 3 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 6-8M, 23-26M, 30-32M, 38-44M [significantly so at 40M], 117-118M, and 181-182M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 23-24M, 71M, and 116-118M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 118M.

On chromosome # 4 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 127-131M [significantly so at 130M]. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 80-81M and 127-131M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 63-67M, 88-89M, 175-176M, 180-182M, and 186-190M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 80M and 136M.

On chromosome #5, you are: NorthAmericanIndian at 78M, 95M, 101M and 141M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 90-91M and 135-139M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 67-69M.

On chromosome # 6 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 148-149M. You are NorthAmericanIndian At 3-4M, 112-122 [significantly so at 114-117M], 148-149M, and 167M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 22-23M, 148-149M, and 152M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 0-1M, 1-2M, 22-24M, 113-119M, and 148-149M.

On chromosome # 7 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 0-1M, 1-2M, and 34M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 9M, 27M, 29-31M, 34-36M, 82-83M, 89-90M, and 95M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 104-105M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 2M, 4-6M, 19-21M, and 25M.

On chromosome # 8 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 60-63M and 85M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 106-108M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 3M. We share MesoAmericanIndian tribal DNA at 3M on this chromosome.

On chromosome # 9 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 19-23M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 0-1M, 1M, 110M, and 129-131M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 19-20M, 108-109M, and 137-139M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 103-104M on this chromosome.

On chromosome # 10 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 2M, 13M, 96M, 124-126M, and 130M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 53-54M, and 111M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 123-124M.

On chromosome # 11 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 7M [significantly so]. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 21M and 23M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 25-26M

n chromosome # 12 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 15-16M, 18-19M, 29-37M, 91-92M, and 96M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 108-112M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 45-46M and 129M.

Onchromosome # 13 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 27M and 109M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 48-49M, 82M, and 109M.

On chromosome # 14 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 80-81M, 97M, and 98M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 25M, 73M, and 80-81M.

On chromosome # 15 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 20-23M, 25M, 27-29M, 51-54M, and 84-85M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 40-43M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 88-91M.

On chromosome # 16 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 66-68M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 55-58M [significantly so at 55M], and 65-67M.

On chromosome # 17 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 6-7M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 32-33M, 40-41M, 62M, and 65M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 3M.

On chromosome # 18 you are ArcticAmericanIndian at 1-2M.

On chromosome # 19 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 35-37M and 53-54M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 8-9M, 44M, and 53M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 54M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 53M.

On chromosome # 20 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 16-17M and 34-35M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 0-1M, 2M, 15-16M, and 58-59M. You are MesoAmericanIndian at 16M.

On chromosome # 21 you are SouthAmericanIndian at 14M. You are NorthAmericanIndian at 14M, 30-31M, and 42-44M. You are ArcticAmericanIndian at 27-28M.

On chromosome # 22 you are NorthAmericanIndian at 47M

Here are the results of a percentage of admixture algorithm she showed me that can be found online.

Once you’ve logged onto gedmatch, you should be taken to a page entitled “Tools for DNA & Genealogy Research”. There are a list of websites linked under the title “Information”. These are helpful comments concerning use of DNA information. Under that, is a file named “Upload your DNA files”. Go there to upload the information about your DNA that was sent to you, after you had turned your DNA into them for testing. Once the gedmatch website has received your DNA information, it will give that information a number. Below that, is a section of files under the title “DNA Applications”. These are various algorithms used and created by various individuals to test ancestry of those wishing to discover their ancestry.

Unfortunately, none of them were created specifically to determine Native American ancestry. However there is one that does a better job at this than the others. Under “DNA Applications” click on “admixture heritage”. That will take you to a page entitled “Admixture Utilities”. Select MDLP Project. Go down and use “Admixture Percentage by Chromosome”. Then hit “continue”. You will be taken to a place that will ask you for the kit number assigned to your DNA information. Enter it. Then hit “continue” again. You will be asked to “Select the calculator model to use” I used “world-22” which created the information below. Others are pretty good, too.

Some of it makes no sense, but I thought the Native American part of the algorithm is correct, pretty much. However others were probably more accurate in other areas. They conclude 13% of my ancestry is from the region between the Middle East and Southeastern Asia. I have been told by some lazy researchers were are 100% Caucascian (Family Tree DNA). Only one ancestor is questionable that “might” fit into that south Asian part – My mother’s maternal grandpa was a man with the surname “Jonas”. He was supposed to be “Black Dutch”. I looked that up and it might mean “German Jew” or dark complected German. I have also heard it might mean Greek or Greek/Turkish/German. But all our ancestors were in America before, or came during -- the Revolution. Mama’s ancestors (except those Jonases) are easily traced. Some of dad’s ancestors are just a dead end.

I’d suggest using any of those MDLP algorithms, just to see what they provide. Some might fit your known genealogy information better than others. These algorithms were developed from Lithuanian sources. They have no pro-Native American bias. But they have no anti-Native bias, as seems to be the case with other testing algorithm's.

Population Percentage (%)

Pigmy 0.031818182

West Asian 8.186363636

North European Mesolegic 3.427272727

Indo-Tibetan 0.222727273

Meso-Amerindian 0.140909091

Arctic-Amerindian 0.318181818

South Amerindian 0.413636364

Indian 1.213636364

North Siberian 0.322727273

AtlanticMediteranianNeolithic 32.44545455

Samoedic 0.709090909

Indo-Iranian 1.913636364

East Siberian 0.140909091

Northeast-European 47.39545455

South African 0.177272727

North Amerindian 0.545454545

Sub Saharan 0.25

Southeast Asian 0.095454545

Near East 1.668181818

Melanesian 0.077272727

Paleo Siberian 0.172727273

Austronesian 0

N. A. + Siberian 2.763636364

African 0.020867769

ME+Iran+India+SEAsia 13.15454545

I put the Siberian with the Native American. This includes Meso-Amerindians, Arctic Amerindian, South Amerindian, North Siberian, Samoedic, North Amerindian, and Paleo Siberian. I placed Indian (Asian Indian) with the Middle East and Southeastern Asia. The African is undercounted, too. Perhaps it was mistakenly counted as from India or the Middle East. This says 13% of my ancestors came from southern Asia. From Anatolia to Vietnam. I have only one ancestor that might have come from that region, and that. That should make me 7% AT MOST, and this result doubles that! Also percent of African is far lower than what my 2005 test suggested. If 7% of my Middle Eastern/Indo-Iranian/Southeast Asian results went to African leaving 6% for the possible Jewish ancestor, that could account for the differences in the two results.

I have to conclude many DNA algorithms discount people who say they have Native American ancestry, and artificially inflate other nationalities or regions due to some internal bias they hold. For instance the people of India have Blacks in Southern India, Asians in Tibet and Burma (Myanmar) or Indo-European ancestry to the North. These three races are all mixed in much of India. This is a similar status of the Melungeon peoples in America, who are also tri-racial. The difference being our European DNA came from the U/ K. rather than the Russian Steppes, our Blacks from Africa rather than southern India, and our Asian from Native Americans rather than from Tibet or Miramar (Burma). Well, this is all supposition and could probably be easily disproven. I would like to see geneticists ACTUALLY disprove it rather than to smugly just say it is nonsense. As I would have said when I was younger to any math student -- so I would also say to any geneticist – show your work! How do you get from point A to point B? Don’t assume you have it right -- NOW -- because the moment you do that you will quit searching.

I am not one of these nutty-fruitcake Trump inspired (I suspect Trump just LOVES a good nutty fruitcake!) conspiracy theorists that believes the truth is a lie and vice-versa.

Ut-oh. She woke up. Here comes my one-year-old German Shepherd-mix -- Ouch! Ouch! When she sees me -- Ouch! -- on the computer -- she just loves -- ouch! -- to use my left arm as a chew toy Ouch! Ouch! Okay, I'm done for now . . .Ouch.

Wednesday, April 28, 2021

After 30 years of Research, do we have any Cherokee blood?

Do We have Cherokee Blood?

Maybe . . . still?

Hawkins surname

My father was named Alpha Omega Hawkins in my birth certificate, which also states that I was born in Okmulgee, Okmulgee County, Oklahoma in December of 1952. Dad’s birth certificate states he was born in August, 1915, at Manitou, Tillman County, Oklahoma. His father was Noah Allen Hawkins. Noah is a three-year old child in the home Joshua Allen Hawkins and his wife, whose maiden name was Elizabeth Maryanne Byrum, on the 1880 census. The Byrum’s came from Bertie County, North Carolina. There exists a photo of Elizabeth’s nephew – he looks 100% Caucasian. Back to the Hawkins’. Noah had moved to Indian Territory where he married my grandma in 1904 in the Chickasaw Nation. That 1880 Texas census was taken June 25^th, 1880 says Joshua was born in Alabama. It states that both his parents were also born in Alabama. We have never known who Joshua’s parents were.

Joshua Allen Hawkins, my great-grandpa, went to prison in Texas on April 17^th, 1858. He was discharged on April 17^th, 1860. At the time of his incarceration, he lived in Cherokee County, Alabama. That means he was born between April 17, 1837 and June 25, 1837. Those same prison records say "nativity", meaning birthplace, and say "Alabama". There is some ambiguity as to where when it says he was from Cherokee County, Alabama, it also means he was born there. My DNA matches those of many Hawkins families, so he was not adopted. The clincher for me is in his prison record that states Joshua had blue eyes . . . that means he is most likely, mostly Caucasian. Time to move on. I have had dozens of people ask me about my Hawkins surname asking me if they were Native. Although he was found in Cherokee County, Alabama and was born just before the Trail of Tears, the fact that he had blue eyes tells me he was most likely European. The fact that My Y-chromosome DNA Hawkins families who trace their families back to England, possibly the region around Kent. This tells me our Hawkins lines tie us to England. Being in Cherokee County, Alabama, doesn't necessarily mean he was born there. Having his birth place in Alabama in 1837 says nothing about Cherokee ancestry. He had said his parents were born in Alabama. He could have been mixed-blood and that might have given him blue eyes. But I can't assume that. This is just grasping at straws. Knowing who his parents were would help, but we don’t know that, either.

Brown surname

My great grandma’s maiden name was Josephine Brown. She was born March 24^th, 1854 to David Brown and Harriet Guess in Lawrence County, Arkansas. David had moved to Arkansas from Alabama. He is last mentioned in Alabama in 1847 on a tax roll and first mentioned in Arkansas in 1848 in another tax roll. He married Harriet in Shelby County, Tn (Memphis) in 1841, but moved back to Alabama afterwards. His parents were John Brown and Polly Black, who married on December 23rd, 1820 in Lawrence County, Alabama. They had land on the Tennessee River, on its south bank, in Lawrence County. Their land was right next to a place called “Brown’s Ferry” near but on the opposite back of the river from Decatur, Alabama. This land was ceded from both the Cherokee and Chickasaw, about 1816 as it was claimed by both. Some Cherokee families might have remained behind once the land was ceded. Some of the Meltons did, and they were neighbors of the Brown’s. One Melton, David Melton, signed the Articles of Union for the Old Settler faction. One Cherokee genealogist said they thought we descended from a man named “John Brown Jr” on the Cherokee Reservation Rolls. He had participated in the War of 1812 as a member of the Cherokee contingent in the Creek War. However it is difficult to move on from there. He had enlisted as a “private”. There are three men naned “John Brown” on the Cherokee Emigration Rolls and three more with that name on the Reservation Rolls. Both rolls were taken about 1817,1818, or 1819. But I have never made heads nor tails of all the men named “John Brown”, nor have I figured out how to distinguish one of them from one another. Some of them were with the Old Settler faction. Mine died in Alabama just before the 1850 census. His wife is called “Mary Brown” and is listed as a “Widow” on that census. He is listed on the same 1847 tax records as his son, my ancestor, David Brown, in Alabama. David is listed in the 1850 & 1860 census in Lawrence County, Arkansas. David's mother Mary, is in the same Lawrence County, Arkansas census in 1860. David had married Harriet Guess in 1841.

I have discovered a record of Catherine Brown. Huntsville Republican, 25 July 1823: Died on the 18th at the residence of Dr. Campbell, Miss Catherine, daughter of Mr. John Brown of Cherokee Nation. (she) Was moved from her father’s residence to Dr. Campbell’s in Limestone Co.

Referenced: MARRIAGE, DEATH AND LEGAL NOTICES FROM EARLY ALABAMA NEWSPAPERS 1819-1893, by Pauline Jones Gandrud.

Interessting . . . Decatur, in Limestone County is just across the Tennessee River from where my Brown's lived in 1823. It is said that is where she died. I don't know if that means anything or not. We might be related. We lived right on the river, but the southern bank. Limestone County is on the northern bank of the river. After researching this many years, all I can say truthfully, is that we have found evidence, but not proof that we descend from the Cherokee Brown's.

This is about as far as I can go with our Brown’s. There are just too many people claiming descent from the Cherokee Brown’s. I still can’t see any answers as to who descended from whom. Now it’s time to try to tackle our biggest most confusing surname, the Guess/Gist’s.

Gist/Guess surname – this is confusing and takes time

What started my search into genealogy and trying to see if our stories of Native American ancestry was as a child, to just look and my dad, and uncles and aunts, and great uncles and aunts, and grandma. Anyone looking at us would have said we are Native Americans. Today however, anyone looking at the generations coming later, my nephews and nieces, and their children, would say that we are white. To make things worse, “EXPERT’s” online say we are delusional stealers of other people’s culture and families. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. Maybe some are faking it or just don’t know any better, but I suspect many are just not documented, and the Native ancestor goes back in time several generations before accurate records existed.

Our look into a possible kinship to the Cherokee through Sequoyah ended up with a search into the Catawba, This story is told below. It is long and can get or appear confusing. Let me continue.

Family stories about being related to Sequoyah

I remember as a child going to a pow-wow and dad saying we had some Indian blood. I first thought we were part Comanche because we lived in Southwestern Oklahoma. I remember someone telling me “You look like a White Indian.” One day someone asked me “What tribe?” and I had no idea. I said “Comanche” because I had no idea, and since they lived here, well maybe that was it. Later I learned there was a family story that we were related to Sequoyah. However I never researched these things at that time. I just remembered them, but let them be.

I was probably 40 years old before I really started looking into our heritage. I’m 68 now (as of early May, 2021). I remember Uncle Andrew when asked about our heritage, replied, “I’d be careful about looking into that, if I were you. You might not like what you find.” What on earth did he mean by that? Dad bought a book by “Dub” West in 1976 entitled “The Mysteries of Sequoyah” so he must have been looking into it, too. After he passed on in 1992, I got more serious about looking into our heritage. Dad only had 2 sisters left. That generation was going fast. As a child I knew some of my great uncles and aunts, grandma’s generation. I had never asked any of them anything about our heritage. Now that generation was gone, and the generation after theirs was almost gone, too. Then one of the two remaining Aunts passed on. Time was short. I sent off a letter to Aunt Lorena, the last of her generation and I have included that. Now she too, is gone.

If you look at old family photos, one branch of the family goes from looking mostly Indian not so long ago, to mostly Caucasian today. The generations of my ancestors that knew our true heritage have gone now.

First Story

I once heard a cousin say “we descend from Sequoyah”. But I know that is not exactly what Dad said. Below is how I remember his story went.

Dad used to tell me the following story. He said he often walked to school barefoot. I used to have access to a photo of him barefoot at a one room school, but when mama died it vanished, and I have asked for a copy but no one seems to know what became of it. He also said his grandparents lived between his house and the school, and said sometimes on the way home from school, he'd stop by their house for a time. He said on occasion, his grandma looked through his Oklahoma History book, and said she pointed to a picture of an Indian in the book, and said, “Do you know you are related to him?” Dad always said he didn't remember which Indian it was. Now since Dad's grandma's maiden name was Josephine Brown, and Josephine's mother's maiden name was Harriet Guess, well many of us suspected maybe it was Sequoyah.

Well Dad and I used to argue over petty things when I was young -- I was rebellious. Him being born in 1915 and me in 1952, there was a generation gap. As a child he went to town in a mule driven wagon, and a 20 mile trip to town and back took all day and half the night. It was so different from how things are now. He was penniless as a child and I never lacked much. He was a very good man. Now I understand why he was as he was, but he’s not here to tell him. I didn't get interested enough in those stories until Dad was older. I finally showed him that photo of that famous King painting of Sequoyah from an old Oklahoma history text book and ask him if that was the photo he'd shown his grandma and she'd referenced. But all Dad would ever reply was “I just don't remember.” Too bad. So I wished I'd asked him before, and I'd wished I'd been more curious about this when I was younger, and that we hadn’t argued so much.

Second Story

After Dad and most of the others had passed away, I realized if I wanted to hear any other stories about our Indian blood, I'd have to ask Aunt Lorena, the last of her generation. So I wrote her and asked her if she ever heard any family stories about us being related to Sequoyah. Below is what she replied. Now there was originally a fifth page in which she said she was “quite sure” her mother had said that Harriet (Lona Richey, Aunt Lorena's mother, was the daughter of Josephine Brown, and Josie's mother was Harriet Guess/Gist) was Sequoyah's “niece or great niece”. Now there were only 4 or 5 lines on that fifth page, but what it said was important. I don’t know what became of it. I have transcribed the majority of her letter, and I had page five transcribed on my computer before I lost it. Here is that transcription:

Dear Vance and wife,

I am sorry I have been so slow answering your letter. I have no idea what I could tell you that you don’t already know.

The reason I am so late answering is I had an accident at a dinner theater here in town during intermission. I have no idea how it happened unless I tripped on a man’s coat lying on the floor or someone may have pushed me. I fractured my shoulder and hip on the left side. Have spent almost two months in rehab hospitals. I walked the first time last week. I’m home now and will have rehab at home. I tire easily.

I remember more about what our mother told us than grandmother Richey. We had a wonderful grandmother and I suppose she talked more about Sequoyah to the boys than to us girls. Alpha was almost 6 years older than I. She was a Brown before she married grandfather Richey. Her mother was a Guess before she married great grandfather Brown. I think mama said she was a niece of George Guess, “Sequoyah”. He was known as a Cherokee intellect. I have some literature on him. He was never a Cherokee chief but was called upon to deal with the U. S. Government. He did live in Indian Territory as well as Arkansas. He had a home in Sallisaw, Ok. I don’t know if it still exists. He was born in 1778 in a small Cherokee village of Tuscegee in Tennessee. He is known for inventing the Cherokee alphabet. I remember a lot about him in our Oklahoma History.

Our mother looked a lot like some Indian trait, as well as her sister Aunt Bea, Uncle Hoten, Uncle Will, and Uncle Swan. I saw a picture of Uncle Hoten and Uncle Otho (he died in 1917 or 1918). A school picture of the old Holton school just about a mile and ½ from where we were raised South and East of Manitou. They definitely showed Indian blood, very nice looking, though. The Cherokee were the most civilized of the “Five Civilized Tribes.”

Grandpa and Grandma Richey came to Indian Territory before Oklahoma became a state. They lived in covered wagons when Mama and Aunt Bea were little girls. I used to love to hear her talk and tell when they were children. Aunt Etta drove a team of oxen while grandpa and I suppose Uncle Swan drove the others/horses. Sage grass was taller than mama and Aunt Bea. Grandmother made little red caps for them to wear when they went out to play. Both Andrew and Raymond were born before Oklahoma became a state. They and Cecil were born in a half dugout. Our Aunt Zora (Uncle Swan’s wife) was the mid-wife to the three boys. Grandmother Richey delivered Lula. They were having a snow storm and the doctor couldn’t get there until she was three days old. I think Doctor Comp delivered the rest of us kids. He lived in Manitou. [Vance’s note: both my parents told me they were delivered by my Great grandma Richey – no doctor was present].

I know you didn’t ask for –

[Note: And I no longer have the last page. But I did save in one place on my computer her letter. The following was on page five.]

I know you didn’t ask for a lot of the things I have written. I’m proud of them and still love to think about their early lives, so different from today . . .

I’m quite sure it was Great-grandmother Brown who was a Guess and was a niece or great niece of George Guess.

With love and best wishes,

Aunt Lorena

Third Story

There is one more story. In “Pioneering in Kiowa County”, volume 4, my great uncle’s descendants wrote about their branch of our family. They wrote about their covered wagon getting stuck in the mud crossing the Salt Fork of the Red River, and other things. At the end of the story my second cousin adds “O. T. Richey was a direct descendant of Sequoyah of the Cherokee Indian Tribe. Sequoyah was Oscar’s great-great-grandfather.” – submitted by Naomi Stephens Meinert.

So while dad’s story suggested we were “related to an Indian” whose painting was in the Oklahoma History text book, his sister said she remembered being told we descended from Sequoyah’s niece or great niece, and a second cousin of mine had written we descended from Sequoyah himself. I guess that’s why some family stories are considered unreliable. But I think there is a grain of truth in it. All three stories agree on one point – we are related to Sequoyah in some fashion.

Indian Pioneer Papers

The man mentioned above, my Great Uncle Oscar Taylor Richey, wrote a little something about our family. There is a historical record of some early settlers of Indian Territory called IPP, or Indian Pioneer Papers. This was a Dust Bowl Era project to get Old Timers of all races and mixes to tell their family story of how they came to live in Oklahoma when it was known as “Indian Territory”. There were thousands of such interviews.

In 1936, the [Oklahoma Historical] society teamed with the history department at the University of Oklahoma to get a Works Progress Administration (WPA) writers' project grant for an interview program. The project employed more than 100 writers scattered across the state, with headquarters in Muskogee, where Grant Foreman served as project director. Asked to "call upon early settlers and (record) the story of the migration to Oklahoma and their early life here" the writers conducted more than 11,000 interviews, edited the accounts into written form, and sent them to the project director who completed the editorial process and had them typed into more than 45,000 pages. When assembled, the Indian-Pioneer Papers consisted of 112 volumes, with one set at the university, the other at the society. There are only two complete bound sets of originals.

These interviews can be found online (along with other documents) here –

http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/

My great uncle Oscar and his wife Emma both responded to this request. I have transcribed both of them. Here are excerpts of those two documents. They later settled on a farm just north of Lone Wolf in Kiowa County, in southwestern Oklahoma.

Date: August 23, 1937

Name: Oscar T. Richey

Post Office: Lone Wolf, Kiowa County, Oklahoma

My parents were natives of Arkansas and grew up near Fort Smith which is just across the line from Indian Territory. Both come from pioneer families.

After they were married in the year 1872, they moved into Indian Territory and settled in either the present Sequoyah or Leflore Counties. I do not know on which side of the Arkansas River they lived, but I remember very clearly hearing my mother say that the territory was like a wilderness and that they had to go back to Fort Smith for everything they had to buy and that when they needed protection all the officers of the law had to come from Fort Smith.

Mother never ceased to tell us children of an experience which she had while living at that place. Two White men and Two Negroes committed some kind of a crime in the Indian Territory, were taken to Fort Smith tried and convicted and were sentenced to be hanged.

When the day of the hanging came, she and Father like everybody else in the country started early for the hanging was to be a public affair, and they traveled all day through the woods and across the streams and when they reached Fort Smith there were literally a thousand people which was a great number at that time, gathered as if at a picnic to witness the hanging. Mother watched the hanging and it was so horrible to her that she regretted attending such a thing all the remainder of her life.

They later moved to the Chickasaw Nation. Oscar said the following; Living was pretty hard for us as we were poor and the land had to be cleared and broken before we could plant or grow any crops. Everything had to be hauled by wagon from Nocona, in Montague County, Texas and the roads were only wagon tracks with no bridges on the streams to amount to anything and the bridges which were built would wash away every time there was a flood on the river or creek.

At first we depended for our food mostly on rabbits, squirrel, fish and other small game. These animals furnished us with meat and we raised a little corn on land which we were able to clear out . . .

Oscar’s wife wrote the following; My parents moved to Indian Territory in 1890 and settled 12 miles northeast of the present town of Duncan. in Stephens County.

My father was very fortunate as he bought a lease from a Chickasaw Indian named Belton Colbert, which was rather well improved.

I mention this because I suspect this was talking of Benton Colbert. I found no record of “Belton” Colbert”, but there was a Benton Colbert. She was writing in the 1937 about what happened when she was a small child in 1890. The Colbert’s were a powerful, well known and respected Chickasaw family.

Now that I have established a baseline of my ancestry, I want to find out more about our “Guess” ancestors.

Which Guess/Guest/Gist ancestors are mine?

First, I’d like to extend a big hand to Don Sticher. He helped me discover which Guess/Gist family we descend from. There are Guess/Gist families all over Oklahoma and Texas. With his help, we shot them all down. We couldn’t prove any of them were ours. All we had to go on was Harriet’s census data, and her marriage to David Brown in 1841 in Shelby County, Tn. We knew they lived in Lawrence County, Arkansas.

One day we discovered Mary Brown, in Walker County, Alabama in 1850 was in Lawrence County, Arkansas in 1860. We discovered a John Brown and a David Brown too, in Alabama for a 1847 tax record, and on the 1850 census there was a Mary Brown, widow listed as well. Our David Brown is in Lawrence County, Arkansas on a 1848 tax record – we found the year he moved to Arkansas. Mary Brown was his mother and apparently John Brown was his father. Our John Brown turns out to have married Mary (Polly) Black in 1820 in the northeastern part of Lawrence County, Alabama. Having these Brown’s gave us a place to start searching our Gist’s. Something finally panned out.

It turns out the there were also a lot of Gist/Guess families living in the area. One Rachel Guess married Thomas Tolbert/Talbot, also in 1820. Signing for Rachel was a James Havens. Interestingly, and sadly for Thomas, he died within a year of his marriage to Rachel. She remarried in 1822 to Emmanuel McNutt. On the 1830 census is Emmanuel McNutt with 2 males between 10 and 15 years old. There is one daughter under 5, one between 5-10, and 2 daughters between 15-20. Now Rachel and Emmanuel married in 1822, and on the 1830 census several children in the household are older than 8, both male and female. On the 1830 census, Emmanuel is between 20-30 while Rachel is between 30-40. Those older children were Rachel’s, and not Emmanuel’s. Rachel’s maiden name might not have been “Guess”.

Interestingly, and this is the clincher, the Emmanuel McNutt family is living in Shelby County, Tn, on the 1840 census. That’s the county where David Brown married Harriet Guess in 1841. There is a James Gist serving with the Union during the Civil War. James married Elizabeth Frazier in Shelby County, Tn in 1848. Elizabeth filed a widow’s pension papers and in his Army papers it said James was born in Lawrence County, Alabama, and that he had “dark eyes,” black hair” and had a “dark complexion”. 1860 census says James was born about 1819. That was before Rachel’s marriage to Emmanuel McNutt. Census records also put our Harriet’s time of birth about 1817, before Rachel’s marriage to Emmanuel, yet she was of child baring age. I believe Harriet and James to be brother and sister to an unknown male surnamed “Gist or Guess”. Harriet's name is spelled "Guess" on her marriage records, yet James name is spelled "Gist" on his Union Army records out of Missouri. His brother-in law, my ancestor, David Brown, served in the 8th Confederate, Arkansas. Both were dead by 1865. A photo of Hariet exists – a tin-type. This was given to me by great-Aunt Ettie’s daughter-in-law. This is supposed to be a photo of Harriet (Guess) Brown (abt 1817-1886). The baby is supposed to be great-Aunt Ettie, Harriet’s grand-daughter. It was her family that saved this tin-type. As we saw, her brother, James Gist, was said to have a dark complexion, have dark eyes and black hair. They appear to be Native American.

Gist’s Station and Gist’s Station’s Camp

Don Sticher is one of the administrators of the Guess/Gist/Guess DNA site. He walked me through EVERY Guess/Gist/Guest family found in Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, and nearby states, going back east to the Carolina’s, Virginia and Maryland. DNA tests and genealogical records confirmed our branch goes back to a man named Nathaniel Gist. There is a book, “Christopher Gist of Maryland and Some of His Descendants 1679-1957”; by Jean Muir Dorsey and Maxwell Jay Dorsey. Everyone trying to research these Gist families must look through it. I looked up Nathaniel Gist in their book. There was a Christopher and a Nathaniel Gist Sr. who were brothers. Both of these men had sons named Nathaniel Gist, We descend from Nathaniel Jr, son of Nathaniel Sr. During the French and Indian War Christopher Gist befriended George Washington. Christopher died of small-pox in 1759 half way through that war. His son, named Nathaniel Gist, is thought by many to be Sequoyah’s father. He lived to see American as an independent country. Meanwhile MY Nathaniel Gist was killed in 1780 at the battle of Kings Mountain during the American Revolutionary War.

The Dorsey’s say the following about our Nathaniel; Nathaniel Gist 4 (Nathaniel 3, Richard 2, Christopher 1). B. c, 1736, Baltimore County, Maryland; d, Oct 7, 1780 at the Battle of Kings Mountain, North Carolina. They also said; Nathaniel Gist was a young boy when his family moved from Maryland to Virginia. He lived with his father beyond the Dan River in Rowan County, North Carolina, until it was necessary for the frontier families to move to a place of safety. Nathaniel and several of his brothers moved to Cumberland County, North Carolina.

It is unclear exactly when Nathaniel Gist left his lands in Cumberland County, North Carolina and moved up to Washington County, Virginia.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~varussel/indian/28.html

We the Commissioners, etc...do certify that John Dickerson, heir-at-law to Humphrey Dickerson, who was assignee of Joseph Blackmore, who was assignee of Nathaniel Gist is entitled to 310 acres of land lying in Washington county on the north side of Clynch River in Cassell's Woods, to include his improvement. Surveyed the 28th day of May, 1774. The quote above makes it clear that Joseph Blackmore knew our Nathaniel Gist. Someone purchased land from Joseph Blackmore in 1774, and sometime previously Joseph had purchased the land from Nathaniel Gist. This is just down the road from Fort Blackmore. This Fort was mentioned with respect to the origin of the Melungeons. It was said to have been built about 1771.

I hope this website stays up –

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~varussel/other/forts.html One of the few historic references to Gist’s Station is found in a book about the life of Wilburn Waters. Today Gist’s Station is at the location where Coeburn is located, in Wise County, Virginia. There is a curious thing mentioned in Coale’s “Wilburn Waters.” He tells of the Indians going to this station in 1777, after their capture of Jane Whittaker and Polly Alley, and finding it well defended they make no attack upon it. But there is no mention of it in veterans or their spouses making pension requests, or anything similar. The creator of the above web site states, “That some sort of fortification existed at Coeburn is unquestioned, since from the earliest times the place was called Guesses Station, and retained that name until the coming of the railroads when the name was changed”. Well the Dorsey’s put MY Gist family there, in their book

It is also interesting to note that there was a place called “Gist’s Station’s Camp” in Southern Kentucky. In 1805 a legal claim was being made on some lands in southern Kentucky. Here is part of what was recorded at that time. They were being asked about events that happened in 1775, thirty years earlier.

Wayne County, KY Deed Book A, Page 213-216 (LDS Film #590703). The deposition of Nathaniel Buckhannon . . .

Question by Young - - Was there not another trace besides the two above spoken of leading from Cumberland River to Prices Meadows?

Yes, from Gesses Station Camp near the big Cotton to Prices meadows.

Ques. by Mills - - How far was Gesses Station Camp from the mouth of Pitmans Creek?

Answer - - Opposite on the contrary side of the River.

Question by Young - - Was not the trace last spoken of very much travelled?

Ans. - - It was our general crossing place when we came to or returned from Prices meadows.

So there was a place in 1775 called “Gist’s Station’s Camp”. Gist’s Station” was bypassed in 1777 by Cherokee or Shawnee who attacked other stations in that same valley.

When Lewis Jarvis wrote about the Melungeons, he said; They were originally the friendly Indians who came here with the Whites as they moved west . . . The White emigrants with the friendly Indians erected a fort on the bank of the river, and called in Fort Blackmore. . . they have married among the Whites until their race has almost become extinct. . . The old pure-blood[s] were finer featured . . .

From the historic marker below, it appears Fort Blackmore was built about 1771. From Jarvis Lewis writings, it was built by the Whites and friendly Indians.

There is one last reference I want to cover. It comes from a book entitled “Land of the Lake” about the history of Campbell County, Tennessee, by Dr. G. L. Ridenour, 1941

One 340 acre tract of land calls for a location on both sides Beaver dam Creek “including William Sharp’s improvement at Reed’s corner along a conditional line between William Sharp and John Brady on a cross fence down a small branch, thence along the fence twenty-nine poles striking the creek at a bent so up said creek to Miller’s line where John Guest (Gist) now lives.”

This John Gist was the son of an Indian trader and a Cherokee woman. He was kinsman of Sikwayi, or Sequoya, whose English name was George Gist, the inventor of the Cherokee alphabet of syllables. Years later Aaron Guest of Kentucky acknowledge the receipt of his part of “the estate of my father Aaron Guest, Deceased, where Jason Cloud and John Guest (Gist) were executors.”

Dr. Ridenour’s daughter saw to it his book was published. In the Preface his daughter, Crea Ridenhour says "Much detailed research and time went into the writing, and the information included in the book was painstaking historically correct. . . . much that he knew died with him." Crea Ridenhour, Nov. 11, 1991. I’ve run into and had to make that excuse, a lot.

Several men that knew John Gist in northeastern Tennessee would up in Lawrence County, Alabama. Jason Cloud, who was executor of his son Aaron Gist's things wound up at Brown's Ferry near Chattanooga -- but there was a second Brown's Ferry near Decatur, Alabama. James Havens was a neighbor of John Gist's in Eastern Tennessee. James Havens signed the marriage document of Rachel Guess in her place, in Lawrence County, Alabama. Rachel's daughter Harriet Guess married David Brown, son of John and Mary Brown.

Rachel's Marriage

Harriet's (Rachel's daughter) marriage to David Brown

In Conclusion

I am leaving out a lot of details. I am leaving this report of these Gist’s where I started, with a Gist man said to be a kinsman of Sequoyah. Dad said we were “related to” an Indian found in the Oklahoma History book. I think he was referring to Sequoyah. We've discovered a record of “John Gist” said to be a “kinsman of Sequoyah”. We seem to be related to him, too. I have no idea how we might be related except to say we descend from Caucasian cousins, both named Nathaniel Gist. That is for all intents, proven. But it is still possible we are closer related than that.

I doubt if my Hawkins relatives are Native American, altho I can't prove or disprove it. Occam's razor would tend to conclude that we were probably just intruders.

I strongly suspect my Brown's are of mixed-race heritage, and we may go back to John Brown Jr., found on the Cherokee Reservation rolls living on the Tennessee River in Northern Alabama. I know the difference between evidence and proof. We have evidence for a Cherokee heritage, not not proof of it.

Our Gist's are a different story. They lived near the Cherokee and the Catawba and there is evidence for either, or both. I can not determine which of those two are ours. But our photographic evidence is overwhelming. They are mixed-Native. I can not determine whether that mixture in Cherokee or Catawban.

This John Gist might be related to the Catawba rather than the Cherokee. Who knows? He lived in a Melungeon community, yet his family moved to former Cherokee lands along the Tennessee River. Maybe we are related to Sequoyah on his Caucasian side, only. There’s a lot more information that I have, but it doesn't prove anything of importance -- it just leaves us with more questions. That makes this a fine place to stop.

ADDENDUM -- DNA Painting of Native Componets

First do a DNA test, Then create a username and password here - GEDmatch Login - GEDmatch Login . Download the information the DNA tester you chose provides for you at the login you just created. You can now use that information. Here are the results of a DNA “painting” performed for me by a friend who knows how to do a “painting”. I am mostly Caucasian, but on all 22 chromosomes, there is a little Native American DNA. I was told the following;

Vance Hawkins M061610 time for your comparison before you die of old age, LOL.

I use MDLP World22 at Gedmatch Admixture Heritage; it picks up smaller bits of DNA than Autosomal Comparison and I consider these bits clues, not noise. [Vance's note: some DNA researchers just deletes part of your DNA calling it "statistical noise", leaving small percentages of native culture out. This person does not do this, thank God.]

I have been told that Painting goes back 500 years and that significant segments signify an ancestor of that ethnicity within the last 300 years, meaning since 1700.

Significant Segments are those colors on Painting which go up or down more than half-way. I do not trace Siberian DNA.

So, according to Painting, this is where your chromosome segments are Native American Indian: